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My paper, which I listed in a previous comment, totally shows just how utterly stupid you and your antivaccinationist buddies are. Read the paper before you continue to make a jackass of yourself. And once again, you play the Nazi card: Do you have any understanding of who the Nazis were? They had an absolute contempt for the intrinsic worth and dignity of human lives. Then came the Holocaust. And towards the end of the war they sent out 10 year-old German boys and old men to their deaths with no training and no hope.

Whether you agree with the research on vaccine safety or not, do you really believe that doctors such as Dr. Gorski, epidemiologists, such as myself, the people at the CDC, and Pediatricians are vaccinating kids because they intentionally want to harm them? Keep in mind that almost all vaccinated themselves and their children. Do you believe they sacrificed their own kids as part of some world-wide conspiracy? The Nazi had contempt for the intrinsic worth and dignity of human life.

So, I repeat, by playing the Nazi card, you insult the memory of the victims of the Nazis and the soldiers of many nations who fought them, many dying or seriously wounded. You are an absolutely despicable excuse for a human being.

So you would like to see: Probably deliberate, though, since tetanus is pretty much a walk in the park. I skimmed the paper you hyperlinked to, Dr. Tritz lecture on Mechanisms of Viral Pathogenicity.

Nothing new; but a reasonable summary. In addition, our very DNA has large sections of fragments from viruses. This is not an either or, black and white world. However, without vaccines this would be a very very different world. In addition, it left many blind or disfigured. And, as far as I have found, even today there is NO scientifically valid treatment for smallpox. Prior to the WHO campaign to end smallpox starting in , an estimated million people in the Third World died from it in the 20th Century.

And smallpox was just one of the diseases that vaccines prevent. It is great that you found Dr. Tritz lecture; but you base your knowledge on it and the story is much more complicated. Of course, no one wants children sickened by toxic chemicals; but toxic depends not only on the chemical; but on the dose, the duration of exposure, and several other factors.

The chemicals in vaccines are minimal. And one also has to weigh the alternative. Thank goodness that smallpox no longer exists in the natural environment. We were lucky that its natural reservoir was only in people. Polio, measles, and several other infectious diseases also only have humans as their natural reservoir. Despite what antivaccinationists want you to believe, vaccines are the most researched product around, exactly because we give them to children, our own included. You can go to the CDC vaccine safety page and it has a hyperlink to studies sponsored by the CDC by year and there are many many more studies not done by the CDC, both in this country and abroad.

They have been found to convert in the body to carcinogens. So not only do you want to perform a grossly unethical trial on children, you want to perform one that is totally unblinded and non-randomized as well. Pray tell, Professor, as you're clearly the world expert in this science stuff, how exactly are scientific trials meant to operate again, and to what goal?

As for a peanut allergy, the anaphylactic shock would have been almost immediate, be treated and then if they found peanuts, even minute quantities, they would assume the peanuts caused it. However, most adverse reactions to vaccines, sore arm, slightly elevated temperature, even fainting are normal; but even they might not have been caused by vaccines. Have you never seen someone faint at the sight of a needle?

If a serious adverse event occurs, one looks at the timing, the possible biological mechanisms, and, of course, the possibility of random chance, always aware of the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo prompter hoc. And also see if one can rule out other possible causes. As an aside, is there any objective test for autism spectrum disorders? Yes, for a subset that have been found to be clearly genetic; but most are diagnosed on observations, no actual physiological evidence.

Just a couple of absurd examples. Imagine that over the past 10 years that 1, crimes, e. Or, I assume you have heard of the law of gravity? Science as a Light in the Darkness, gives an example of someone claiming to have a Dragon in his garage. You, on the other hand, ignore all the scientifically research possibilities and begin with the one factor.

Looks like you've gotten your lines crossed: DB was quoting "Joey", our most newly arrived waste of space. There is simply no such thing as "Evil" Bacon. The wasp's sting may still be down his throat. A number of seafood dishes are accompanied by a sauce made from nuts of some sort.

In my youth, there was this weekly TV comedy show, set as a mock judicial hearing. Every time, some poor schmuck - always the same guy - was judged for the most outrageous or improbable reason. One time, he was on trial as the owner of a Chinese restaurant; the plaintiff complaining of becoming very sick on the day following him eating at this restaurant. It quickly became evident that the restaurant was "Chinese" only by name, and the guy was an awful chef.

And then the plaintiff let it slip that, thanks goodness, he wasn't immediately sick and was able to attend the same day a sausage eating contest, where he won the title of the biggest, fastest eater.

It would be, if there weren't a large body of literature showing how peanuts trigger allergic reactions in people. We can actually describe the immune response that takes place: I have Asperger's Syndrome. Two years ago, I got a booster shot for TDaP as a requirement for my job hospital insisted it because our area had a pertussis outbreak.

Amazingly, my friends began commenting that the worst of my Aspie symptoms were easing up. Less literalism, less obsessiveness with my hobbies, better verbal skills. The fact I'd recently completed cognitive behavioral therapy had nothing to do with it, I'm sure. It must be the vaccines. They cured my Aspergers! Someone call the New England Journal of Medicine. I'm sure they'll want to do a case control study right away. Since there can never be "proof of safety" of vaccines They cannot be mandated for anyone.

The pharma companies and cdc employees are too corrupt to force any of this junk on anyone. I say that even though it would be amazing to inject some of these criminals with 10, or , vaccines. The quote is "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Were you aware that there thousands upon thousands of studies, etc Which show a connection with vaccines and autism and other autoimmune issues.

Apparemtly, you're living in the 's. Have there been hundreds of thousands of other aspies who have had the same result due to the tdap? I'm sure that you are aware in the case of babies, that's what has happened Intelligent and caring parents have spoken and their children have had the same negative consequences post-vax. Maybe you are on to something though How about asking your doctor to hook you up with dtaps and see what happens or 10, of maybe even , with a pint of rabbit's blood and some nasty monkey virus to go along with it.

OK, so you don't want to be vaccinated. You may find yourself restricted from a few jobs the military, working in a hospital, some animal work , but otherwise it should not affect your life very much.

However, in order to prevent the spread of serious diseases into the rest of the population we will have to require you to abide by the laws that are in place from the time before vaccines - specifically quarantine. During the entire course of a communicable disease you will be restricted to your home unless you need medical care. I'm sure you're fine with that. Rubella infection during pregnancy can cause birth defects, including brain disorders, including autism.

Ah ha… Thank you! You are stupid beyond belief. The point that I was making is that it is logically impossible to prove a negative; but that doesn't mean one can't have a high level of confidence in something.

In any case, the risk of vaccines is infinitely less than the risk from the vaccines. Anyone with an iota of intelligence would understand that. And you continue with the 10, or , without reading my paper. Of course you would because you would be too stupid to even consider the overwhelming evidence because you had made up your mind.

Read my paper or just shut up. You continue to make a fool of yourself by refusing to even look at evidence refuting the 10, or , No, not even close. Maybe you should go back on your meds because you live in a fantasy world of delusions.

Rubella can cause autism Which makes it even more mind-boggling that you can't wrap your head around the idea that the vaccine with the live rubella virus can too! I actually feel bad for some of you. So much cognitive dissonace here. In case you are intellectually honest and just ignorant, here's an analogy: Lack of folic acid as an adult does not cause spina bifida. Lack of folic acid as a newborn does not cause spina bifida. Do you understand the difference?

Also, we've had a vaccine for rubella since Where are all the autistic adults? Shouldn't there be millions of them if the rubella vaccine causes autism? I can answer that!! Based on Joey's answers, he visits a cranio-proctologist for his medical information. His head is removed from the orifice and the answers just come pouring out.

Anti-vax parents are neither. They are incapable of caring about their children. All they care about is the reduction in status that comes with a disabled child, and the fact that they cannot hand off childcare duties to a paid surrogate and resume work. And they aren't smart- most barely passed college, few have advanced degrees and not a single one passed high school biology.

Rubella can cause autism if experienced in the 1st trimester of pregnancy when the fetal brain is first developing. The vaccine is NOT given once pregnant. In addition, you really don't understand what a live vaccine is. It is significantly weakened so it can only pose a risk for someone with a compromised immune system. Regardless, the vaccine is NOT given to pregnant women.

They should have their license suspended. Please stop with the over-the-top hyperbole. Anti-vaccine parents aren't stupid. Misinformed, yes, but they aren't stupid. I don't see the difference, really. And a few are just completely lost to reality, like most of the big names at AOA. Why would Joey accept medical care formulated using the same evidence-based methodology as that which deems vaccines safe and beneficial? I'm sure he'd refuse all medical intervention if he really believes everything he spouts.

Hey… Were you aware that there thousands upon thousands of studies, etc… Which show a connection with vaccines and autism and other autoimmune issues. I for one am not aware of "thousands upon thousands" of these studies. I am not privy to your delusions. IOW, if anything, cases considered as serious AE are over-represented rather than under-reported.

BTW, on behalf of the old gang of minions, welcome around these parts. I believe it's the first thread I saw your comments. An argument you presented in a previous thread and is actually quite compeling. Well, if there were more appropriate childcare available for special children, a lot of people would feel a lot better. Starting with the children themselves, I guess.

Now your elitism is showing. Knock it off, please. You are also quite wrong. A number of AVer leaders did pass high school biology, and some of them forged on to become physicians or nurses some of them visit us regularly, I'm sure you remember.

Or it was simply that pandering to the whims of their rich, ignorant clientele is more rewarding. This is a P. Despite what people choose to believe, one can draw causal inferences from case-control studies; Could you or someone else who have knowledge and experience with study design and statistics take a look at the study and tell me what you think of it?

Is the study good enough method, sample size.. I would also like to say thank you for your previous posts. While they were not addressed to me, I still find them useful. I do not have a science background, so everytime I read posts like that or various blog posts like Orac's I learn a little bit more. I get a quick peek at a really complex topic and I find that interesting. But Joey won't like it, because it doesn't show that unvaccinated children are so much healthier than vaccinated children if he reads it at all, and actually understands statistics.

I, too, would like Dr Harrison's take on it. You'll need to answer these questions:. How many children would you need in your study? How would you recruit the parents?

Hou would you word the consents? How would you get it funded? How would you obtain IRB approval for the study? My child had a severe reaction to his MMR vaccine. Broke out into a "viral rash" that's what the doctors documented in his records. Head to toe "viral rash" which was of course associated with the MMR. When I brought him in to the office they quickly removed him from the waiting room and started panicking about the other patients.

Almost comical when I think about it now. Idiots who injected my son with God-knows-what then racing around going "omg Protect the other patients.

Stop with the "oh it's such a weakened live virus it can't hurt Now, if you want to say my son has a weak immune system. Ok, I'll go with it. As a PHD, are you able to write medical exemptions? Clearly my son and his siblings should all get one, right? That's not worthy of a medical exemption". You clearly have ZERO knowledge about regressive autism I will be forever grateful.

Open your eyes people. You are very sheltered if you simply hang on this nonsense blog. Go read parent testimonials, watch fb videos of parents, follow vaxxed, watch how Dr. Thompson is going to be brought up and subpoenaed for his involvement in the MMR fraud. Thank goodness more and more people are waking up to the fraud and corruption. So you gained an illusion of control over the fundamentally uncontrollable by seeking out quacks who exploited your obvious need to make sense of something that, in fact, turns out to be part of the crapshoot of life.

They exploited you, they exploited your son. And the sick part is that by reinforcing the false information you received, they made you grateful for their exploitation. This cannot be said clearly enough: People who "treat" autism by reference to "vaccine injury" are either delusional or charlatans, or possibly both. Far from suppressing it, hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent looking for any proof of a link. Even though the studies purporting to show a link are mainly tiny, and the most significant turned out to be fraudulent, the world of medical science - which could legitimately have told the antivaxers to just fuck off and die - actually expended a vast amount of time and effort testing their claims.

The claims are false. There is no correlation between vaccines and autism. Vaccinated children are no more likely to be autistic than unvaccinated. The antivax cult of course dogmatically rejects the results of this patient inquiry. And the irony is that they accuse science of not hearing what it doesn't want to hear. In truth, if there was any credible evidence that vaccines cause autism, then that would be on record by now and there would be work underway to find out why. But there is no such evidence, so no such inquiry is warranted.

How do you know it was associated with the MMR? For all you know, he could have been infected by an unvaccinated child. I'm still waiting for the day Dr Thompson is being "brought up and subpoenaed". And where is the infamous study that was coming out in May that was going to show us all? Have you even read the CDC papers? They're available publically, you know. And yes, a viral rash is possible after the MMR; both my kids got it.

I doubt the pediatrician's office panicked that much, if you'd notified them your son has received the MMR within the past 48 hours.

It's generally short term, and is NOT full-blown illness. But if you just showed up at the office with no notice, of course they'd freak out since they might not recall you from the visit.

They probably had babies and immuno-compromised children who could have been made VERY ill if your child had the actual disease. No, there is no shedding from the MMR and your child was not infectious. Both of mine did it.

In fact, as long as the daycare they were in knew they were post MMR, they didn't even make the kids stay home if they developed a rash - it was so common normally, those kids would be sent home until clear. About a week to 11 days after the MMR injection, some children get a very mild form of measles. This includes a rash, high temperature, loss of appetite and a general feeling of being unwell for about two or three days.

About three to four weeks after having the MMR injection, one in 50 children develop a mild form of mumps. This includes swelling of the glands in the cheek, neck or under the jaw, and lasts for a day or two. Surely, less many visits and less many needles should be easier on a young infant!

Now, if doctors were as callous and motivated by lucre as the anti-vax crowd wants us to believe zero they'd be the ones pushing for spacing out the vaccines.

Especially when it can result into more sick babies down the road. Looking back over the past mumble decades, I believe that if I had had the choice between the rash you describe and the measles through which I suffered, I'd take the damned rash. It is only because we have data that shows that some people react to peanuts with symptoms that include swelling and difficulty breathing that the anecdote appears to show something you consider so obvious.

Even still, as others point out, without more data it's not possible to say your neighbor has a peanut allergy. Seems Joey is convinced his son was going to become autistic post-MMR injection and was timely saved by his holistic doctor. He reacted to the vaccine and his skin mounted a reaction to the viruses' presence.

IANAD, but that's seem the sign that his immune system is fine, if a bit on the over-reactive part. His other siblings, not so sure. They may not have whatever made your son react. They have completely different formulation, you know. No live virus, to start with. Given your son's reaction to the weakened viruses in the vaccine, should you son have caught good old natural measles or mump, or rubella instead, what do you think would have happened to him?

Neil Miller fortunately points us to the evidence that MMR vaccine, even in pregnancy, does not appear to have any adverse effects Joey, okay , he had a rash. Lots of conditions can cause a rash, and sometimes, yes, they are a side effect of the MMR and, sometimes, they aren't.

What was the injury done to him? A rash is certainly unpleasant, but I'd hardly call it a vaccine injury. Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents: Deutsches Ärzteblatt International; 7: Whether unvaccinated children and adolescents differ from those vaccinated in terms of health is subject to some discussion. We evaluated data on diseases that are preventable by vaccination, infectious and atopic [allergies] diseases, and vaccinations received that had been collected between and in a representative sample of 17 subjects.

Evaluable data on vaccinations were available for 13 subjects aged 1—17 years from non-immigrant families. The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status. Note the small number of unvaccinated, 94 versus vaccinated 13, Just as I discussed in a previous comment, unvaccinated numbers extremely small. Go to Table 1 and look at the confidence intervals, all over the place and Figure 1.

Despite this, all over the blogosphere antivaccinationists claim findings contradicted by what is actually stated in the paper. Read the paper for yourself. Note also that the data on diseases was collected from the parents without verification from medical records. So, it was a nice attempt; but given so few unvaccinated, almost impossible to draw any valid conclusions. Such a small group could certainly differ on a number of variables. In addition, they did not verify the diseases.

I stated that I was paraphrasing Holmes from memory. I got the gist of it. Try not being so pedantic. Thanks for correcting me.

Unfortunately, no way to edit comments once posted. As usual you really understand very little. Not I, nor anyone, has ever claimed that adverse events to vaccines do not exist. As for your kids breaking out in a rash, the cause could be a simple allergic reaction to one of the ingredients in the vaccine; but if so, then, since those ingredients are ubiquitous in the environment, it probably could have happened any time.

However, was there any long term sequelae? Not according to your comment. So, yes, vaccines do cause a number of minor adverse events and, in rare cases, some serious. Stop the lying that provaccinationists are as simple-minded as you in seeing the world as dichotomous, black and white. As I have written umpteen times, the risks from vaccines are minuscule compared to the actual diseases. If your kid had gotten measles, it would have been far worse, a week with temperatures spiking at , rashes over entire body with intense itching lasting a week or more, anorexia loss of appetite , malaise and for about 1 in 20 hospitalizations, with between - dying and up to 2, suffering blindness, deafness, seizure disorders, and mental retardation.

Not because of vaccines. In addition, numerous studies where they could obtain videos of kids prior to vaccines found that they showed indications of autistic behaviors, just not noticed until some specific time and some specific behavior and then the parents remembered they had been vaccinated; but forgot the behaviors prior to vaccination.

My expertise is not in autism; but I was, prior to getting a 3-year post-doctoral fellowship where I trained in epidemiology, a licensed psychologist and because of claims by antivaccinationists have read a half dozen books and probably journal articles on autism spectrum disorders. Try reading just the one article and look at the large reference list. Wrong About Vaccine Safety: It has references.

So, I read probably over papers and used just to write one article. I think that alone documents just how much investigation I do. You just keep making a bigger and bigger fool of yourself.

People tend to see, to focus on things, that often turn out to be wrong. Just to be as absurd as you, there are parents who claim their kids were abducted by aliens in the night and returned changed. There are parents who believe their children suffer demon possession, etc. I guess, according to you, we should listen to them and act based on their beliefs. I lived in Sweden for 9 years. One of my closest friends 4th child was born with Down Syndrome.

Down Syndrome not only affects mental capacity; but often includes heart problems and hip problems. In Sweden, all necessary surgery and medical care for children, high tech and high quality, is free.

In addition, they believe in the intrinsic worth and dignity of every life, so they have special programs to help all children reach whatever potential they have.

In addition, once every three months a trained person came to the home for 72 hours to give the parents respite care. It is a lot of work taking care of a special needs child, so Sweden tries to give them some free time. And the percentage of GDP in Sweden that goes to this is less by far than the percentage of GDP that goes to the American health care system which offers a lot less. Their system is designed to help people, while the American health care system is designed to extract as much profit as possible.

Since many children develop problems or are born with them who have not recently been vaccinated, what happens to them? And what would happen to all the children hurt by natural vaccine-preventable diseases if we did not have vaccines? In most civilized nations the community through some form of non-profit universal coverage does. Not in the social darwinistic US.

I agree with you. It is not my PhD; but how I go about learning things. Even in High School we had to do a term paper and were required to have a minimum number of references and, though one could use an Encyclopedia article, most had to be original sources.

The requirements were higher in college. I suggested she read my article before continuing with the 10,; but no indication she did. The reason she and other antivaccinationists are stupid is not whatever innate brain power they have; but their rigid close-minded approach, their poor scholarship cherry-picking, only reading what confirms their point of view , deficient knowledge of science basics and the basics of research methodology, and their use of ad hominem arguments to compensate,.

Something that places Joey outside of any realm of decency. They're in a locked file cabinet in Mark Geier's basement, next to the PCR analyzer he bought at WalMart and the fridge for holding snacks and blood samples. Aside from your nitrates and the fact I'm a vegan, well done. You do understand that the Geier's claim they have a world-class lab in their basement.

How can one argue with that? Like, for instance, those thousands and thousands of studies. If these problems occur, it is usually within days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose. Did you child have any other symptoms, such as the fever?

How long did the symptoms last? So, your child who has regressive autism also got a MMR-induced rash? Interesting, but I have no idea why you would think those two things were connected. I wish we could put more attention into researching adverse effects — who gets them?

Are there genetic links, or is it random? I believe we need studies that follow up children who had adverse reactions even mild ones and their siblings — this would allow to determine if those siblings really are at risk for a similar reaction.

And without data to guide us, the parents of children who had actual adverse reactions to vaccines are left at the mercy of internet fear mongers. The VIS quote ends at: Reposting the rest that's mine without all italics So, your child who has regressive autism also got a MMR-induced rash? Looking for a book for summer beach reading, or to give someone who you may not like very much? Just out from Brave Maverick Press - it's the autobiography of Suzanne Humphries, once an obscure nephrologist, but now one of the most laughed-at antivaxers.

From the amazon blurb:. Like many doctors, she was on the way to becoming one of the walking dead. Then, one day she realized that policy was harming her patients, and she took a stand. This resulted in hostility and ostracism by the authorities and her peers in the system. In , depressed and deflated, life was difficult in all directions. I'm excited to find out whether she's talking about an imaginary friend, one of those studs at AoA, or perhaps Harold the Homeopath.

Well, it's sure to be inspiring, regardless. Don't they have their own IRB as well, made up of Geier pere, his wife and his business partner?

The phrase "Too Many Too Soon" gains validity, as a reason to question the vaccination schedule, in the absence of pre-vaccination testing. In my opinion, the safety measure described below should be used to reduce or eliminate childhood injuries from "Too Many Too Soon" vaccinations:. Medical research must clearly define a typical i. Require a test to determine a child's proteomic profile before each vaccination; then 3. Children having an atypical proteomic profile e. The phrase "too many too soon" is an invention of the antivaxers, as yet another post-hoc rationalisation for why they are right despite the absence of any remotely plausible mechanism.

In fact, as has been discussed in these pages before, the total antigen load from the entire schedule now is less than the load from a single vaccine fifty years ago, and a tiny fraction of what the child is subjected through due to the process we call life.

They only managed to find 94 unvaccianted German kids? And I can't imagine how many cofounders there were with those kids. Sibling groups, socieo-economic status, religion, use of other medicine Viagra Super Active is an improved formula of Sildenafil citrate which gives men an opportunity to increase their sexual Cialis Professional is one of forms of Tadalafil to which the additional active components were added.

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Unlike usual tablets soft His theological focus is in the field of homiletics and social ethics. Samuel is the author of Solomon's Success: Four Essential Keys to Leadership. Martin Luther King, Sr. He was ordained in Samuel is politically active and has been elected as a Georgia delegate to the last four Democratic National Conventions.

In March of , Dr. Samuel organized the Victory for the World Church which has dual standing as an independent Baptist Church, and an active congregation of the United Church of Christ.

Situated in a growing eastern suburb of Atlanta called Stone Mountain, the Victory Church seeks to address the total needs of the total person through a broad array of ministries and services which promote the spiritual development, educational enhancement, physical fitness and social empowerment of every child of God regardless of race, gender, culture, class or sexual orientation.

Samuel and the Victory Church completed construction on a seat Worship Center, replete with classrooms, offices, a library, a bookstore, a recording studio and a seat Fellowship Hall. In addition, the Kenneth L. The 25 acre Victory campus also houses the Victory Christian Academy which serves grades K3 through 4th grade, and the Victory Annex and trailers which are used for counseling and community outreach. They are the proud parents of one daughter, Kendalle Marye, and they reside in Lithonia, Georgia.

So he put Ephraim ahead of Manasseh.





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